How to convert CR2+JPEG in one file so I can submit it for printing?

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Permalink Reply by Fred on June 28, 2009 at 11:05pm

When you have files in RAW format it is just raw information not a picture. You have to use Photoshop to adjust the picture so it is what you want to see using levels and curves, then any other adjustments you want to make. You will also have to calibrate your monitor so that it displays the correct colour, most monitors are out of adjustment.
Work on it and it does become a lot easier. Also look for a Photoshop Discussion on here, they can help you out.

Fred

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Permalink Reply by Natalia Nikoloudakis on June 29, 2009 at 6:32am

My bad, I didn't word it correctly. I shoot in CR2+JPEG then I upload files to Abode Lightroom. I just don't know how to apply changes and save it into file and submit it for printing. :)

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Permalink Reply by Natalia Nikoloudakis on June 29, 2009 at 6:22am

Hi Sean,
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. My camera was set up to sRGB and I've changed that to Abode RGB. Hope that will help!
I don't really use Photoshop instead I prefer Abode Lightroom.When I do transfer it to Photoshop and change from 16 Bits/Channel to 8 Bits I don't see the difference in colors. Only when I save it is saved in Jpeg as a large file it doesn't look the same. Well, I will keep trying :)

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Permalink Reply by CameraClicker on June 29, 2009 at 5:47pm

If you are printing using a regular printer attached to your computer, using the kiosk at any any of the major stores or using online labs, you should be using the sRGB setting, either in the camera for a JPEG from the camera or set the raw conversion software to convert from RAW to sRGB. In the 30D manual, Canon (who should know) states:

About Adobe RGB
This is mainly used for commercial printing and other industrial uses. This setting is not recommended if you do not know about image processing. Adobe RGB, and Design rule for Camera File System 2.0 (Exif 2.21).
Since the image will look very subdued with sRGB personal computer environment and printers not compatible with Design rule for Camera File System 2.0 (Exif 2.21), post-processing of the image with software will be required.

Canon provided a RAW converter on the CD's that came with the camera. You could try it, instead of Camera RAW and Photoshop. The Canon converter understands the nuances of the Canon RAW files.

What you see on the monitor will probably always look better than a print, just as a photo viewed as a slide or transparency always looks better than a print. The print does not have the advantage of the light source.

Typically labs and the kiosks in stores only accept JPEG files, usually only 8 bit JPEG files.

Try this, take a photo and make several copies. Keep one as you would when sending it for printing in the past. Adjust the rest of the files each a little lighter than the last, keeping track of how much lighter each one is. Then send the group to be printed. You can pick the print you like best and know how you have to adjust the rest for that print process.

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Permalink Reply by Natalia Nikoloudakis on June 29, 2009 at 7:29pm

When I upload pictures from my camera I use Abode Photoshop Lightroom. It shows the pictures perfectly fine and I can make an easy adjustments. But I have no idea how to transfer my pictures to the disk to bring it to kiosk to print them out. This Lightroom doesn't do a direct change to the picture itself instead it send a file with made adjustments. Unfortunately I have no idea how to transfer pics to the disk embeded in one file saved in JPEG:( So I tried to send picture by picture to Photoshop but it doesn't give a choice to save it in JPEG. Instead I can only save it in PSD TIFF or RAW. Nobody accepts this formats for printing.

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Permalink Reply by CameraClicker on June 29, 2009 at 8:08pm

When you have a photo open in Photoshop, choose File, then Save As, and use the file type selector in the dialogue to select JPEG or JPG, depending on version. I don't use Lightroom but it can probably export a file to JPEG format or Save As will make a JPEG.

Collect the saved files into a folder, then use software that came with your PC's CD/DVD burner to create the CD. Many kiosks can not accept DVD, so CD is safer. Some CD software is Nero, NTI, Roxio, for the PC. The Apple machines should come with software but I don't know what it is called.

Another option is to copy the files to a USB drive and take that to the store, most kiosks have a USB connector.

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Permalink Reply by Natalia Nikoloudakis on June 29, 2009 at 8:48pm

When my Photoshop loads it gives a message: The document "////" has embedded color profile that does not matcgthe current RGB working space. Embedded: ProPhoto RGB. Working: Adobe RGB (1998). How do u want to proceed? From the options I chose use embedded profile (instead of working space). It load the picture perfectly fine. I go to Save as and there is no JPEG Format. Instead I can save it in TIFF . RAW PSD or PDD and that's my problem. The only time JPEG and other formats appear in the format choice window is when I switch it from 16 to 8 Bits.channel and its when I lose quality of my picture :(
P.S this is how it looks. Horrible!!!

Attachments:

• IMG_0250-Edit-Edit copy.jpg, 1.1 MB

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Permalink Reply by Matt Needham on September 22, 2009 at 7:54am

You should see no difference in quality converting from 16 bit to 8 bit as a final step before output. It should look identical.

Go to Edit>Color Settings to change PS to ProPhoto RGB. That'll keep you from getting the warning every time you come from LR.

Then before you convert from 16 bit to 8 bit, go to Edit>Convert To Profile and choose sRGB. Then convert mode from 16 bit to 8 bit. Then save as jpeg.

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Permalink Reply by shravangotru on June 29, 2009 at 11:45pm

Dear Natalia,
JPEG is 8 bit only, but if i am not wrong you some printers can print 16 bit tiff files. Hope this helps
rgrds
gotru

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Permalink Reply by Matt Needham on September 22, 2009 at 7:40am

I haven't used LR in a while, but I think they call what you are looking for "export". It will save a copy of your file as an 8 bit jpeg where ever you want.

Lightroom uses ProPhoto RGB as it's color space, and you get no choice about that. I think if you save as a jpeg (export to file for print?) it'll automatically convert it to sRGB. LR is supposed to make it so the photographer doesn't have to worry about color space.

Photoshop gives you a choice of color spaces, and if you go from LR to PS, and you don't have PS set to ProPhoto RGB then there's a color space issue. If you are going from LR to PS a lot you may want to assign the ProPhoto RGB color space as your default in PS.

The raw file doesn't get a color space assigned to it until it's converted into an image file. Setting the color space on the camera only effects jpegs.

Ask your lab what color space they want files delivered as. 99.9% want sRGB. If you are using another color space in PS for processing then you'll need to convert to sRGB before delivering them to the lab.

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Permalink Reply by Brian McNea on October 29, 2009 at 1:51am

It has been a while since I have had to deal with this issue, and I use Nikon stuff, not Canon, but there are a couple of things I think you should know.
I believe As CameraClicker said, sRGB is a color space intended for monitor or electronic displays. Adobe 1998 RGB is intended for printing on paper. Your photos will look best on a monitor in sRGB, and best in a print (wider color gamut) in Adobe 1998. However, since your camera is set to capture in sRGB(as most digital cameras are, including mine) changing the color space should not improve the color of the image. Changing the color space is only an issue if you are throwing information away, say switching from a wide gamut to a narrower gamut. The warning in PS is intended to alert you to this, but doesn't always indicate a degraded image. I think what you are seeing in your examples is that the Adobe 1998 RGB color space will look flat on your monitor but should print better than sRGB. You will have to test this as I could be wrong.
Secondly, I think the problem you are having with saving your files in PS is that some file formats do not support 16,24, 32 and 64 bit color spaces, like jpeg and Tiff. These are the formats most printers use so you are restricted to them for now. The logic behind the extra color space is not so much for final printing, but for manipulating the images before hand. The more information you have to work with gives more latitude in your ability to adjust and make changes in your files before printing. As Matt said, you should not see that much of a difference in the quality of your files simply from changing the color depth bit setting. I think you are seeing the change in color space, unless you have PS set to auto-update open documents in the general preferences, the changes you make in color space won't be visible on your monitor until you save the file. Again test this as I could be wrong.
Finally, I think the CR2 file is Canon's data file that contains your changes you make without actually editing the image file itself. If I'm right, your original file hasn't changed after your edits, the CR2 file is telling your computer to display it with your changes in an attempt to preserve the original file. So the meat of your problem is as CameraClicker said, try using the software your camera came with to apply the changes saved in the CR2 file to your actual image file. I'm sorry but I don't have it and can't say for sure if it will or not. If it doesn't work or If you don't like the software that came with your camera (as most people don't, including myself) you could use PS to do your image editing. In my case I have a Plug-In for Nikon RAW files installed in PS that allows PS to work with their file format natively. There should be one of these for Canon as well, maybe on your CD from canon. LR is a great program but as Matt says, it is one step in the chain and is best for meta data entry and file organization and browsing, not heavy manipulation like PS.
Hope this hasn't just created more confusion and actually helps. Let us know if any of this works, as other people have this problem as well.
B

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Permalink Reply by CameraClicker on October 29, 2009 at 6:27am

CR2 file, is the RAW data. Canon's Digital Photo Professional software stores changes in the CR2 file.
XMP file, is the sidecar file that holds changes made by Photoshop

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